The Orville

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Re: The Orville

Post by Gazomg » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:06 pm

I like the comedy aspect, however that said, if it was a serious show it could be even better
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Re: The Orville

Post by JM1776 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:10 pm

But is it, to you, The Orville, or Star Trek in all but name?

To me it's the latter, at least thus far.
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Re: The Orville

Post by Gazomg » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:29 pm

JM1776 wrote:But is it, to you, The Orville, or Star Trek in all but name?

To me it's the latter, at least thus far.
I think so, I wonder if it was a serious show would the trek owners be more worried or if they would try claim infringement
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Re: The Orville

Post by JM1776 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:10 pm

There's got to be at least a gentleman's agreement among some big shots not to do so, in my opinion, or we'd have seen one already.
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Re: The Orville

Post by Gazomg » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:35 pm

could be.

look how they shut down that axanar thing, although Axanar shot themselves in the foot the way they went about things, and fucked it for a lot as well.

shame as prelude looked epic.
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Re: The Orville

Post by Gazomg » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:55 am

JM1776 wrote:The only comedy I currently recommend is You're the Worst. It concerns a narcissistic writer and deeply disturbed/sexually promiscuous publicist who hook up and then gradually discover to their mutual horror that they genuinely care for each other—each in their own twisted way, of course.

Good news: No laugh track.

It's the kind of series you'll either love or despise. I do both, and won't take it personally if you say, "Dude ... it sucks."

You may want to give it a go, though.

Start from the beginning, if possible. Too much has happened to jump right in.

(Oh ... while they're both extremely intelligent, the man, wonder of wonders, is actually more so, herein.)

Got around to watching this 3 days ago and loved it so much I watched the entire first season that night.
About to start season 3 already
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Re: The Orville

Post by JM1776 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:22 pm

Glad you're enjoying it.

Certain elements remind me of myself and my ex.
"If CBS thinks I am going to pay to watch Star Trek, they are demented." – Marina Sirtis

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Re: The Orville

Post by Mustang » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:09 am

I'll throw my hat in. I think the Orville is Star Trek in all but name. I'm glad it took the comedic route however as it wasn't Star Trek. It has become it own thing and I am thankful for that. Meanwhile I'm also hoping studio execs from CBS catch on that a new Star Trek is more than past due. Terrifying heard through the grapevine an animated Trek series was going to be made by the people who are doing Teen Titans Go, but there's no evidence and I'm praying that's just a rumor.

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Re: The Orville

Post by RAG1986 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:17 pm

I like it just fine. Especially in comparison with STD. And I'm glad it's getting a second season.

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Re: The Orville

Post by JaceRidley » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:44 pm

The Orville is fine, but it has no identity of its own and the writing suffers because of it.

I do not understand anyone who claims it's "MORE" Star Trek than Discovery is. By definition of the name and setting alone.. no it's not. The writing on Discovery has been phenomenal. The writing on Orville has been... lackluster at times. Borderline plagiarism at others.

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Re: The Orville

Post by JM1776 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:10 pm

JaceRidley wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:44 pm

I do not understand anyone who claims it's "MORE" Star Trek than Discovery is.
People make that claim because it's a perspective that's wholly justifiable logically, though not provable. Discovery, despite the fact that it does seem to be gradually finding its footing, in particular this season, still does not have a Trek feel about it to many old-school fans. And to dismiss their entirely legitimate gripes and concerns is tiresome and a bit childish. (That last is directed at the hardcore fans of the new series who feel the need to hurl scorn at anyone who's not entirely on board, not Jace in particular.)

Granted, one cannot deny that Discovery is Trek in name. But that's so self-evident as to add nothing to the discussion.

Frankly, The Orville is an homage that in my opinion Paramount could have easily crushed with a lawsuit (or at least tied up in court indefinitely) if they'd so desired, it's that much a pastiche of The Next Generation.

Discovery has the essence about it of "Millennials in Charge" ... and I don't mean that as a good thing.

Again, though ... it's improving.
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Re: The Orville

Post by JaceRidley » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:33 pm

JM1776 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:10 pm
Discovery, despite the fact that it does seem to be gradually finding its footing, in particular this season, still does not have a Trek feel about it to many old-school fans.


But see, this is where they lose me...

NONE of the other Star Trek series really feel like any of the others. TOS was a product of the times of a kind of pulp "monster of the week" poorly made sci fi. TNG was ENTIRELY different, echoing more of a story of showing more about the worldbuilding of the Federation and telling SOME Monster of the Week and some arc-based stories. DS9 was a straight up war story for most of it's run. VOY was a story about finding their way home.

Discovery is just... different. It's not LESS Trek. It still feels like, looks like, and is Star Trek. It's just newer. Shinier. Up to date.
JM1776 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:10 pm
Granted, one cannot deny that Discovery is Trek in name. But that's so self-evident as to add nothing to the discussion.
And yet, that's all I see half the time. "Discovery isn't Star Trek!"

Well, yeah... it is.
JM1776 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:10 pm
Frankly, The Orville is an homage that in my opinion Paramount could have easily crushed with a lawsuit (or at least tied up in court indefinitely) if they'd so desired, it's that much a pastiche of The Next Generation.
It wears the mask of rip-off Star Trek but it still feels like a Seth McFarlane comedy. Which is... not a bad thing. Or a good thing. It's just what it is. The Orville is a decent enough show, but it's definitely a blatant rip-off and is a comedy. It needs to cater to that. Honestly, if Seth McFarlane had treated it like The Office or Parks and Rec in Starfleet, the show would be better. Instead, we have 1990s storytelling with better graphics.
JM1776 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:10 pm
Discovery has the essence about it of "Millennials in Charge" ... and I don't mean that as a good thing.
Us "damn millenials" really aren't the enemy, you know, old man.

Showing progress in storytelling is not a bad thing. The first season of DISCO had some excellent story beats and I genuinely don't understand the problem most people have.

I didn't like the Klingon "redesign" either... until it was made clear it wasn't a redesign, but something new. The Spore drive is an interesting take on Starfleet technology with a perfectly crystal clear reason why it's not still in use.

Discovery isn't TOS or TNG or even DS9(which, by the way, many people could argue also doesn't feel like "Star Trek" is supposed to apparently...)... It's new.

And new isn't bad.

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Re: The Orville

Post by JM1776 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:36 am

JaceRidley wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:33 pm
Us "damn millenials" really aren't the enemy, you know, old man.

Showing progress in storytelling is not a bad thing. The first season of DISCO had some excellent story beats and I genuinely don't understand the problem most people have.

I didn't like the Klingon "redesign" either... until it was made clear it wasn't a redesign, but something new. The Spore drive is an interesting take on Starfleet technology with a perfectly crystal clear reason why it's not still in use.

And new isn't bad.
Since I'm no longer the contentious curmudgeon I was historically, I'll not rise to the "old man" bait. :P

Nor do I dismiss your opinion as that of a "clueless Millennial," since you're quite capable of defending your position ably. I used "Millennial" above as shorthand, not a blanket dismissal of all things derived from that group. If it seemed that, such was not my intent.

Note, though, that presenting people who disagree with you as backward-thinking is an unworthy tactic.

I find the Spore drive borderline silly, as if Lewis Carroll had written Star Trek, but acknowledge that we've seen other "ultra wicked cool drive system" devices that were later abandoned/ignored, so I certainly accept it on that level and agree that it's not out of nowhere, though its execution could have been better handled. Klingons are known for their genetic engineering in an attempt to improve the species, so ... while I found the redesign unnecessary and a bit excessive, I can't fault it as completely nonsensical or without precedent, either.

The first season of Discovery also had some crappy "story beats", and it's those with which I take exception. Neither of the above, for example, qualify as "excellent".

Indeed, "new isn't bad" ... but it's not immune to just criticism simply because it's new.

And like it or not, admit it or not, some if not all of my critiques have merit.

Because "new" isn't necessarily good, either.
Discovery is just... different. It's not LESS Trek. It still feels like, looks like, and is Star Trek. It's just newer. Shinier. Up to date.
I could make a comment about polishing a turd, but ... that's going a little too far.

Again, since I do not think that, for the most part, Discovery feels like Star Trek, your assertion falls on not deaf but discerning ears. And I discern something different.

Discovery may well be finding its way ... but it's not there yet.

Certainly, however, it deserves the same time we gave the other series. I'm sure on that we can agree.
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Re: The Orville

Post by JaceRidley » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:07 pm

JM1776 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:36 am
Since I'm no longer the contentious curmudgeon I was historically, I'll not rise to the "old man" bait. :P
Wasn't bait. Just a friendly jab since I haven't talked to you in ages. ;) I'm not exactly the fresh faced spring chicken I used to be.

Well that's not precisely true... I don't age.
JM1776 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:36 am
Nor do I dismiss your opinion as that of a "clueless Millennial," since you're quite capable of defending your position ably. I used "Millennial" above as shorthand, not a blanket dismissal of all things derived from that group. If it seemed that, such was not my intent.

Note, though, that presenting people who disagree with you as backward-thinking is an unworthy tactic.
I would say that that is entirely dependent on what they disagree about. For the most part, absolutely true. But there are topics where if someone disagrees with certain viewpoints I have(and that many have) that have nothing to do with Star Trek I could absolutely present them as backward-thinking.
JM1776 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:36 am
I find the Spore drive borderline silly, as if Lewis Carroll had written Star Trek, but acknowledge that we've seen other "ultra wicked cool drive system" devices that were later abandoned/ignored, so I certainly accept it on that level and agree that it's not out of nowhere, though its execution could have been better handled.


I won't lie. The Spore drive is... odd. It was an odd choice. But was it MORE odd than the concept of the Warp drive back when Roddenberry did it? Or have we just accepted that because it's what we're used to now and so it doesn't matter? Dilithium crystals and Matter-Antimatter reactions. While M-AM is more based in reality, the concept of putting the ship in a bubble to move is.... I mean... come on. Pretty much all the propulsion systems in Trek are spacemagic. Trek technobabble is full of handwaving weird choices.
JM1776 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:36 am
Klingons are known for their genetic engineering in an attempt to improve the species, so ... while I found the redesign unnecessary and a bit excessive, I can't fault it as completely nonsensical or without precedent, either.
True. I mean, including the movies, we're on our... what...5th or 6th version of Klingons? I attribute that to different sects and like you said, attempts at genetic engineering. Mostly, my problem with the new Klingons was the lack of hair which, to me, was kind of an Iconic part of their look at this point. But now that it's coming back as part of the story, I don't mind it at all.
JM1776 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:36 am
I could make a comment about polishing a turd, but ... that's going a little too far.

Again, since I do not think that, for the most part, Discovery feels like Star Trek, your assertion falls on not deaf but discerning ears. And I discern something different.

Discovery may well be finding its way ... but it's not there yet.

Certainly, however, it deserves the same time we gave the other series. I'm sure on that we can agree.
And I mean, this is the crux of the problem isn't it? Some people love the show and some people don't. I love it. Right now, especially in Season 2, I'm enjoying DISCO more than I ever did TOS, Voyager or Enterprise, as much as I did the best parts of DS9 and maybe just a hair shy of TNG(which is my favorite series).

With Orville, I feel like it's TOO MUCH like those other shows. More of the same. Nothing new. Nothing innovative. It feels like it could have walked off the same sets and used the same writers(if they were a bit drunk) recycling 20-30 year old material because The Orville isn't telling us any NEW stories. They're telling us the same stories.

So that's why I agree that The Orville is an homage. And a good one. But it's definitely not Star Trek. Because Star Trek, as we've seen from series to series, evolves. It changes to meet the needs of the era and to address the problems of the times, and in doing so, it tells new stories in new ways.

And yes, Discovery ABSOLUTELY deserves the time we gave other series. TNG was TERRIBLE the first couple of seasons and into parts of the third. Same with DS9. Same with Voyager. Actually, Voyager was largely bad in general.

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Re: The Orville

Post by Gazomg » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:31 pm

JM1776 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:10 pm

it's that much a pastiche of The Next Generation.
Up to date with this season now and the last episode where the doc falls in love with the android was like a rehash of so many tng episodes.

or the android human relationship
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