Should I assume that discussing the latest Orville ep ...

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Should I assume that discussing the latest Orville ep ...

Post by JM1776 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:14 pm

... would violate our "no religious conversations" taboo?
"Mechagodzilla and Titanosaurus are controlled by spacemen. They're moving fast and they're near the heart of the city."

If you're feeding your cat a vegan diet your head is so far up your ass that you can lick your own tonsils from the back way.

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Re: Should I assume that discussing the latest Orville ep ..

Post by Michael » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:13 pm

No idea since I haven't seen it. ):(
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Re: Should I assume that discussing the latest Orville ep ..

Post by JM1776 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:58 pm

I'll wait until you do.
"Mechagodzilla and Titanosaurus are controlled by spacemen. They're moving fast and they're near the heart of the city."

If you're feeding your cat a vegan diet your head is so far up your ass that you can lick your own tonsils from the back way.

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Re: Should I assume that discussing the latest Orville ep ..

Post by Jpatten » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:51 pm

I would think that the episode could be discussed without a problem as long as care is taken to not attack actual religions.
But I can wait and see if there is an official ruling, of course, if you want to discuss off forum we can.
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Re: Should I assume that discussing the latest Orville ep ..

Post by Gazomg » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:28 pm

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Re: Should I assume that discussing the latest Orville ep ..

Post by Michael » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:58 pm

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Gazomg, your post is discussion of religion. While it does not specify a particular religious point of view, it does engage on the general topic of religion. If it were to be taken up by others, it could result in the kind of conflagration the no religious discussion rule is meant to avoid.

I have therefore removed your post. If you have questions, please bring them to me via PM, not here in the thread.

Again, I have not seen the Orville episode in question, so I can't give a good answer as of yet. If Quo or Dancyer have, I'll trust their judgment as to whether or not the discussion should proceed.

When the discussion of religion in a Trek episode has come up, my general rule of thumb is fictional religion within the fictional universe is okay to discuss, but real world religions are not. Obviously discussing specifics found within the TOS episode "Breads and Circuses" would be difficult, however, if handled with care and intelligence, and without an intent to inflame, if could be possible.

If someone wants to PM me with the general sense of the Orville episode, I can try to give an answer.

I hope that helps, rather than making things even more murky. 8-[
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Re: Should I assume that discussing the latest Orville ep ..

Post by Gazomg » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:14 pm

So religious people feelings and beliefs must be protected at all times.

but those who dont believe have no rights whatsoever.
Why does that not surprise me.

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Re: Should I assume that discussing the latest Orville ep ..

Post by Michael » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:24 pm

Gazomg wrote:So religious people feelings and beliefs must be protected at all times.

but those who dont believe have no rights whatsoever.
Admin Post...

Given that I am someone who doesn't believe, that doesn't seem likely.

No, the point of the rule (which has been in effect from the very beginning of STPMA, back to the original Yahoo group) is to avoid the complete meltdown such discussion usually results in online.

If you wish to discuss this further, contact me by PM. Please don't bring it up in the thread again.

Thank you.
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Re: Should I assume that discussing the latest Orville ep ..

Post by JM1776 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:56 am

I'm going to post this here because it's high time someone said it.

Michael and I don't agree on everything. He's an agnostic with leanings towards atheism and I'm a Roman Catholic who more than toyed with the idea of the priesthood. We're diametrically (and dialectically) opposed on many (though not all) aspects of this subject.

Despite this, we have never seriously quarreled over religion, either privately or publicly. I belief this has more to do with him than me, because while I don't look for dust-ups any longer, I'm historically quite the argumentative fellow.

No, really.

He is that rarest of breeds: An agnostic/atheist who comprehends both intellectually and emotionally that certain religious persons have excellent reasoning behind their beliefs, and even more, acknowledges that it's entirely possible that he may be wrong (though, obviously, he doesn't think so). In an attempt to maintain STPMA as a haven for Trek-lovers, he instituted a "No Religious Discussions" policy that I have, on occasion, railed at over the years.

I see at long last that he was right.

When one of your greatest enemies (metaphorically speaking) supports your position, Michael, you can rest assured that you were on the right side all along. (You have now won one argument with me. Celebrate! \w/ )

I hereby withdraw my request to discuss the episode here. The reasons are now obvious.

Don't question the man's integrity. It may not be beyond reproach, but it's in the suburbs.
"Mechagodzilla and Titanosaurus are controlled by spacemen. They're moving fast and they're near the heart of the city."

If you're feeding your cat a vegan diet your head is so far up your ass that you can lick your own tonsils from the back way.

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Re: Should I assume that discussing the latest Orville ep ..

Post by Gazomg » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:40 am

my issue is in general and not with micheal.

I have no problem with anyone who chooses to believe, as said that is their right, but by the same token those that do not believe in religion should be allowed the same right to choose and air their beliefs equally on a subject that relates to the sci fi show.
The first thing religious people do is speak of their right but they dont seem to allow others the same, it seems the balance of equality in general is in favor of those who believe in religion. There is nothing equal in that

You wont see atheists knocking on your door trying to convert you, and by that same token discussing the implications on a tv episode is a perfectly rational thing.
If someone really does have faith then surely no tv programme will be able to upset then or challenge their beliefs. their faith would surely be strong enough to comprehend the discussion involved.
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Re: Should I assume that discussing the latest Orville ep ..

Post by Jpatten » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:03 pm

There are replies I would like to make to this but will refrain for now as it would first and foremost I believe violate the rules on Religious discourse because it would not be within the setting of Trek, and secondly, I am unable to reply privately so I doubt there is anything fruitful to be gained from continuing.

That being said if I or anyone here has treated your beliefs in a disrespectful Manner than I at least for myself apologize as that is not the standard I endeavor to hold myself to.
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Re: Should I assume that discussing the latest Orville ep ..

Post by Gazomg » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:34 pm

if we put religion aside for a moment,, and look at the principal of a debate each side has their opinion, but if one side in a debate continually uses an excuse to not discuss something, then that surely shows that one has little faith in their own argument.

I have seen debates of politics, from trump to brexit and countless other topics and while I might not agree with some sides I know they believe in what they say and stand by it because their faith in what they believe is strong.
You dont get that with religion cos if their faith was that strong they would not need to have to shy away or have certain topics declared out of bounds.

we are at the point where even to ask a question about an invisible man that only exists in the minds of others is deemed an attack.
If ones faith was as strong as they claim then surely logical questions are something they could answer.
But no,the persecution card is played
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Re: Should I assume that discussing the latest Orville ep ..

Post by Michael » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:09 pm

JM1776 wrote:In an attempt to maintain STPMA as a haven for Trek-lovers, he instituted a "No Religious Discussions" policy that I have, on occasion, railed at over the years.

I see at long last that he was right.

When one of your greatest enemies (metaphorically speaking) supports your position, Michael, you can rest assured that you were on the right side all along. (You have now won one argument with me. Celebrate! \w/ )
Starts happy dance...

Hey, wait a minute... just one???? ;)

I hereby withdraw my request to discuss the episode here. The reasons are now obvious.
Do you want the thread locked?

Don't question the man's integrity. It may not be beyond reproach, but it's in the suburbs.
Thank you. I very much appreciate that.
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Re: Should I assume that discussing the latest Orville ep ..

Post by JM1776 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:31 pm

The problem I see with your attitude, Gazomg, is the undercurrent of perceived superiority in your position and intellect, which (when we consider some of the participants on these fora) is laughable to the point of hysteria. For example, in this very conversation: Michael is vastly educated on the subject, and even he wouldn't consider himself more learned on theology in general and Catholicism in particular than I am. We are both (and I'll speak for him here, knowing that he'll correct me if I'm mistaken) willing to listen for reasoned discourse, and also perfectly content to dismiss cheek and mean-spiritedness summarily.

If you wish to be treated as an equal, Gazomg, earn it. Deal respectfully with those around you, as you have not done since your debut here, and perhaps we'll start to consider letting you sit in while the adults are conversing. Until then, it's the kids' table for you, and rightly so.

You don't seem to get it: Once you start using phrases like "Invisible Man" (that are employed solely to lampoon and provoke), you have lost before you've even begun, because you've shown yourself incapable of respecting opinions not your own, no matter your protestations to the contrary.

Grow up. We'll be here when you do.
"Mechagodzilla and Titanosaurus are controlled by spacemen. They're moving fast and they're near the heart of the city."

If you're feeding your cat a vegan diet your head is so far up your ass that you can lick your own tonsils from the back way.

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Re: Should I assume that discussing the latest Orville ep ..

Post by Michael » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:32 pm

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