Avengers: Endgame - Trailer

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - Trailer

Post by sirus » Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:29 am

Okay, so I have been informed of something I missed and I need to correct something, I am making a new post rather than editing because I made a mistake and correcting it via editing feels like sweeping the mistake under the rug and not owning it.

Okay, so here is the thing...
Spoiler:
Okay, so Nebula was not replaced by her younger version. I missed that it was the young version who was shot. All I can say is that it was a high tension moment in the story and I read the scene all wrong. I missed a little bit of dialogue later/I didn't recognize it for what it was. It was a long movie and had a lot in it.

So what I will say now is that I am curious to see what they do with the rebooted Gamora. If she has her sister, who did meet Ego and did grow, then this is a very different sort of story. I am more enthusiastic about Guardians 3 with this being the case.
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Re: Avengers: Endgame - Trailer

Post by JM1776 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:25 am

Well, remember how awestruck Gamora was with Thor in Avengers: Infinity War? She couldn't help but caress his muscles, much to Quill's consternation.
Spoiler:
Now that she, an earlier version of herself, doesn't have love for Peter as a restraint, and assuming Thor regains his godly physique (which I imagine an Asgardian could do with little effort), expect to see a love triangle between her, Peter, and Thor. I'd be absolutely stunned if Thor didn't almost effortlessly get into her leathers, should he so desire to do so ... and rightly so, considering how attractive she (and likely any other heterosexual female in the cosmos) finds him. Whether Quill can tolerate that, or decides to somehow fight for her (which would be a great point at which to see his Celestial powers again, since it's the only snowball's chance in Hell he has against one of the most powerful beings in the universe) remains to be seen.

An aside: I think it's amazing how Karen Gillan makes Nebula sexy even as a cobalt cyborg.
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Re: Avengers: Endgame - Trailer

Post by JaceRidley » Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:16 am

I'll be avoiding this thread and not reading anything posted since release until after Monday afternoon when I actually get to see it.

Had too much going on to go opening night or since, but Monday is clear and I bought tickets already.

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - Trailer

Post by Michael » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:26 pm

Thank you for placing your comments within spoiler tags. =D>

I won't get to see Endgame until sometime next weekend, so I very much appreciate the hidden spoilers. 8)
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Re: Avengers: Endgame - Trailer

Post by sirus » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:32 pm

Michael wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:26 pm
Thank you for placing your comments within spoiler tags. =D>

I won't get to see Endgame until sometime next weekend, so I very much appreciate the hidden spoilers. 8)
With movies like this, at least for me, they move from being simple movies and become something like a "Cultural Event", at which time there is a noticable shift in the culture the event exists within. Endgame changes things, in a great many ways. It changes how movies will be made and seen from now on. It's not Citizen Kane or any other legendary movie, but in the years to come those of us who saw it opening week will speak of it. This is this generations "Star Wars", refering of course to the way people changed in seeing movies in 1977. Star Wars defined a blockbuster and I think Endgame defines what a blockbuster is in 2019. Gone are lines, but instead we buy our tickets online and drive many many miles to see it. I heard of people driving almost 2 hours to make it to a theater with an open seat opening day.

With the culture around this movie, and with all of that said, to "spoil" the movie would be akin to "social blasphemy" and we have seen this in how people have been physically beaten for attempting to spoil the movie in public.

For this reason I used spoiler tags, because as a cultural event it must be expierenced to be understood, yet once it has been it becomes impossible to not wish to share thoughts on it. In this way the movie trancends itself and becomes that cultural event. "I just saw Endgame" is now akin to "I just saw Star Wars" or perhaps more recently in memory "I just saw The Passion of the Christ". These movies represented key moments in cinema history and changed how movies were made and seen.

So yeah, with this in mind, deliberately spoiling the movie becomes a decidedly "evil" act and would only be done by those of questionable moral standing.

All that said...
Spoiler:
Infinity War was a better movie.
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Re: Avengers: Endgame - Trailer

Post by JaceRidley » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:05 am

Most of my commentary will be in spoiler tags here...

I enjoyed the movie immensely and think it was a very satisfying end to 22 movies worth of storylines.

Now the spoiler stuff...
Spoiler:

Some highlights for me:
  • Seeing Cap wielding the hammer was a fanboy moment that was AMAZING and I thoroughly enjoyed every second of it.
  • The Symmetry of the story was fantastic in the way that Tony, a man who originally needed "Proof" he had a heart, was the one to choose to sacrifice his life to save everyone, as well as the way that Cap, who got his life taken from him, took it back and got to live out his life with Peggy Carter, had amazing story symmetry. It was a thing of writing beauty.
  • The NUMEROUS mini-cameos of stars and characters from all the other movies. Natalie Portman, Renee Russo, Robert Redford, Jon Favreau, Michael Douglas, Angela Bassett, Marisa Tomei, etc.
  • The use of Scott Lang in this was the best performance by Paul Rudd yet, and I say that as a guy who doesn't much care for Paul Rudd.
  • The passing of the shield to Sam, echoing the comics, was perfect.
  • The entrance of the backup after the Second Snap when literally EVERYONE shows up to help was just cinematically wonderful. "Is this everyone?" "You wanted MORE?"
  • ALL the callbacks. ALL the references. ALL the little details that you need to be a fan of the comics for. So good.
  • Peggy Carter
  • Valkyrie on a Freakin' Pegasus
  • “I swear just this second I thought you were a Build-A-Bear”
  • The beautiful foreshadowing from Age of Ultron when Tony sees all the characters dead, and most of that comes true in some form in this movie... Scarlet Witch's "prophecy" held up all this time later. Excellent continuity. And speaking of Wanda..
  • Her fight with Thanos was fantastic. People forget just how powerful Wanda Maximoff actually IS. She rewrote REALITY in the comics... Her MCU version is pretty de-powered and she can STILL basically manhandle Thanos one on one.
  • Captain Marvel gets her Signature Haircut in the 5 year Flash Forward and Brie ROCKS it. She is so good in that role.
  • I love that this movie was inspired by the TNG Finale "All Good Things..." according to Kevin Feige. And you can see it a bit in the the lines, the way things are laid down.
  • Since Gamora couldn't be brought back via the Second Snap, I thought this method was pretty good. Plus, it's a bit of a reset for her in the GotG where I feel like they kinda rushed the whole thing with her and Quill anyway... Now with GotG 3 : The Search for Gamora, they can explore this a bit more. I've got high hopes. Plus, now Nebula gets to act like the voice of reason a bit lol
  • America's Ass.
  • All of the "snapped" characters are missing from the opening Marvel logo. Their scenes are still played but they're not in them e.g. the AOU scene of Wanda walking out just has the doors open with no one there. Brilliant.
  • "I...am...Iron Man."
I'll stop there because really, I could list stuff for AWHILE.
Now for the not as good... Less of those overall but still a few.
  • Thanos somehow felt MORE powerful WITHOUT the glove than he ever did with it. That's a writing error I didn't like. If they wanted to up the ante of that last battle, they should have just added in his army and his "kids" earlier and give the Avengers other targets than Thanos to deal with.
  • The Professor Hulk thing was more campy in the movie than I'd have preferred. In the comics, it's handled more seriously and in the movie, more as comic relief. I've never been a huge Hulk fan, but I still feel like they did the big green Oaf a disservice.
  • The LEAST satisfying Stan Lee cameo to date.... and it's the last one. It should have been the best.
  • No return of Vision. I was hoping for it to happen in this movie to set up the new show for him and Wanda coming out, but I guess they're saving it FOR the show so people will tune in. They're right. I will.
  • No one seemed to have any issues touching a raw infinity stone. Did... did the MCU forget what happened to Quill/Ronan in GotG 1? I can understand Thanos being able to just pick one up and it be no big thing(as he's The Mad Titan and borderline Demigod-ish), but Hulk? Hawkeye? Thor or Captain Marvel(who was basically MADE by an Infinity Stone) I'd have been okay with. And I could see Cap being able to do it with a struggle. And maybe you can even say the Gamma Radiation made Hulk able to.... but just... a regular human like Hawkeye and Iron Man? A Half Immortal in Quill had trouble. How are they able to touch it?
  • I feel like there could have been more shown about the immediate impact of The Snap. Because, I feel like that should have been MASSIVELY impactful and it didn't feel as impactful as it should have.
  • It bothered be that when the Ancient One meets Hulk and "knocks him out" of his physical form... we see original Banner, and the body left behind is unchanged. It kinda reinforces the idea that Banner didn't INTEGRATE the Hulk. He killed him and took his body. I didn't like that. They should have both come out(which could have opened up a great funny moment for the Ancient One), or, he still should have looked like Professor Hulk. Also, why did that WHOLE THING happen off screen? You could have had that happen near the beginning and we get to see the final arc of Hulk's story on screen.
  • I would have liked to have seen Cap's return of the stones, even in somewhat short form for two reasons: 1 - the reunion with Peggy Carter. But... maybe even MORE interestingly 2 - The Reunion with Red Skull on Vormir.
  • Tony gets a legit funeral.... but Nat doesn't?
  • Not enough Doctor Strange... but then, for me, there never is.
  • Why didn’t anyone think to try and steal the Pym Particles FIRST instead of risking it all in "one shot" ? These are supposed to be some of the smartest and best people in the world. And one of them, the one with the particles to begin with, was a damn professional thief.
  • In Infinity War, after Thanos used the Snap.... he went inside the soul stone and saw the little girl version of Gamora, her soul, how he always sees her in his heart probably because she's who was sacrificed to get it... It would have been nice to give Natasha a send off similar after Tony uses the snap. Have him appear inside and instead she asks "Did we win?" and he doesn't even answer. He just smiles. And when they pan out from that scene... Tony's just... passed. She deserved to be there at the end. That would have at least made her presence felt more.

Also, sirus... you missed a few things... Yeah I'm gonna comment but largely, this is nicer than I've been previously. Not entirely, but largely.
sirus wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:31 pm
...I really wanted to see a Black Widow movie. It is still possible to do something there I think, but it felt like they basically said she was gone for good.
There is a Black Widow movie being made. Scarlet Johansson is still attached to it. It just likely isn't going to be a sequel to this and will also feature a younger actress playing a younger version of her for some of the movie. David Harbour and Rachel Weisz are also in it.
Thor, I have such mixed feelings on. I have no clue what they were going for with him.
This is not a mystery: Realizing he fucked up broke him. He failed. Completely. And it broke him. It's Thor, suffering from PTSD. They used it to show that not everyone was able to just... keep going. That this really affected people. It showed someone who had a mental break. And they picked Thor because he was the least likely person you'd expect to just fall apart. But you'll notice, he doesn't even speak at the start of the movie until there's a plan to act because he doesn't have direction. And the moment that he realizes that "Revenge" doesn't lead to redemption and it can't be "Fixed".... he freefalls. It's realistic. It's brilliant writing.

And he didn't really know how to get back from that until he got to see his mother again.... and found out he was still worthy of Mjolnir. He's a god. What he looks like physically? Really doesn't matter as relates to his power. The only complaint I could have about that was that it was played a little too much for humor...

Oh and his mother is Frigga. Not Freya. They are two different Norse Goddesses.
Loki. What a waste. What a waste of one of their best villains. He does nothing, breaks the rules of the story (if he steals the space cube then how does it go to Asgard so he can take it when Asgard is destroyed and then give it to Thanos?). And the same thing as with Nebula and Gamora, we have a character reset. Yes, he's alive, but he's not the version of the character that lived through the events of Thor 2 and Thor Ragnarok. He's reset back to the version right after Avengers. And honestly, the lest interesting version of the character.
Loki is not a reset because that Loki does not exist in our Avengers' universe. At least not YET. You needed to be listening to the Ancient One. Loki Escaping with the Tesseract is those other Avengers problem in a different timeline for now. Think Prime Universe and Kelvin Universe as a metaphor.

That being said, he is getting his own TV show so...
This was Dr. Strange's "endgame"? Of 14 million scenarios this was the only one they won in? It seems odd because this required a lot to go right and even then I don't consider it a real win.
Yeah. A lot of stuff had to go right. That's why only ONE in 14,000,605. That's... literally the whole point. And they won. It's a real win. Not sure how it wouldn't be.
And now for a big thing for me. For the past year, I have been pointing to the scene where Shuri quickly separates the mind stone from Vision, snapping closed the last several main connections. I had been betting that Vision would be returning because he was made of Vibranium and they were in Wakanda. It felt like a safe bet. Vision is one of my favorite characters and it felt right to see him. That is not what happened and I would be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed.
Guess you'll just have to wait a little longer for his and Wanda's TV show on the Disney Streaming service.
Captain Marvel was in this movie. I like her new haircut, looks good. I hated her. I can't tell how much of it is my dislike for the actress and how much is the character. But she comes across so arrogant and, for lack of a better word, bitchy. There is really very very little effort put across to make her likable in this and with very little issue she could be cut from the movie. She wasn't in it that much and it felt like she was tacked on and integrated into the plot poorly. I did like to see her being shown to not be as strong as Thanos. It seemed like even while she was going full "super saiyan" she was still that little bit weaker. Though that could come down to technique.
Yes, she was in this movie. And.... you missed the point on the entire purpose of her. She wasn't there to "save the day" or be the ultimate weapon like everyone expected. This wasn't her movie to be the centerpiece of. It was the Avengers. She was a piece in the puzzle. They won't win without her. But she couldn't have won it alone, either. They have to work together.

You at least are honest that you don't know if you just don't like the character or you just hate the actress so much that it makes you hate the character. Thing is you have no good reason to dislike her as a person either since... you don't know her. You just find her "arrogant".... Which is funny because Robert Downey Jr. has been Arrogant for like 10 movies now and no one seems to mind. I guess... because he's likable. Doctor Strange as a character is so arrogant he makes Stark look like an Amateur and everyone seems to like him just fine and he ISN'T likable. Weird that. I wonder what the difference is....

Fuck that noise. She's not arrogant or bitchy. She's what confidence looks like on a woman who is totally self assured and doesn't require the approval of a man. She's an excellent role model for little girls and for women. And Brie Larson, herself, is a fucking treasure. Hell, I painted a portrait of her which she loved when I put it on twitter and tagged her, because she loves her fans and this character. What she doesn't like is gatekeepers who think a woman should "smile more" or be "nicer"...
As one final aside, the time travel did not make sense. It was not clear on if they could change anything and they left a massive Loki sized hole in that.
It was very clear. They had a whole discussion about exactly this while they were getting Hawkeye ready for the testrun trip. They couldn't change anything that had already happened. It doesn't work like that.

Oh and one last thing...
sirus wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:31 pm
but with the current vein of "Girl Power" running through a lot of modern movies, I fear we will.
:roll: Why that's a FEAR is beyond me.... Women can be heroes. Representation is important. Something I fear you still don't grasp.
And we'll end with a joke... ;)

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - Trailer

Post by JaceRidley » Tue Apr 30, 2019 2:55 am

Also, a really excellent article that's an interview with the writers...

Do not Read this article if you are not okay with Spoilers...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/29/movi ... swers.html

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - Trailer

Post by Michael » Sat May 04, 2019 5:22 pm

I've now seen Endgame. I thought it was excellent.

There's a lot there to digest, and I won't get to all of it, so expect that I'll probably make several posts over the next many days.

But given the nature of this film, it's all going to have to be behind spoiler tags...
Spoiler:
I like the tone from the beginning. Opening with Hawkeye's family, you quickly get what's going to happen, and the way they drag it out makes it all the more painful when the moment hits.

The first act of this movie was a big surprise. I thought there'd be more buildup to going after Thanos. And I didn't at all expect he'd use the Stones to make what he'd done permanent, but it makes perfect sense, and it follows with what the Avengers were trying to do wth the Mind Stone.

When Thor took off Thanos' head, I was stunned. My first thought was, "Now what? Where the hell are they going with this thing?"

Jumping five years ahead was great (and I loved the Jim Starlin cameo during Cap's group meeting). It gave a real sense of how they'd all given up, not accepting what had happened, but more that there was nothing they could do about it. I thought it was nice that while killing Thanos gave Thor an emotional release, we see that it didn't accomplish anything, and given the magnitude of what he'd done, certainly wasn't justice in any sense of the word.

I thought Ant-Man was used very effectively, and the tie in to his last film worked great, setting up the only option really open to them as far as reversing what Thanos did.

And on that... My general rule with time travel is, the results of time travel should be the problem you're trying to solve, not using time travel to solve some other problem. However, I thought the way they did this was good. On one hand, I would have liked the resolution to be more akin to what was done in the Infinity Gauntlet comic, arising out of Thanos' own character flaws, and from the insights and efforts of Adam Warlock and the Silver Surfer, but how they did this I felt rose above the usual time travel gimmick which usually isn't all that satisfying (Voyager's own Endgame).

Bringing in Ant-Man like they did was great, and it worked very nicely with how things had gone in his last film.

My usual preference for time travel are the Back to the Future rules as they impose consequences on the characters for mucking about with time to achieve their goal. However, I thought they presented their rules quite well, so as long as they stick to them I can accept that. (More on that in a bit.)

I was dreading to find out who was going to get the Soul Stone. We knew there was going to be that price which had to paid. But it was nice to see Hawkeye and Black Widow fight to protect the other from having to pay that price. It was a nice mirror to what had happened in Infinity War.

I enjoyed Tony getting a chance to talk to his dad as a father. And I liked how Cap got a chance to see Peggy Carter again but only through a window and blinds.

I was very happy to see the connection between the two Nebulas as that brought Thanos back into the story, though not the Thanos who had done the snap. I liked how that also provided a way for Gamora to return.

Hulk's snap was underplayed just right I thought in that they allowed the impact of it to come out in small ways at first, setting things up for the return of everyone at the end.

I also liked how the foreshadowing of Cap and Thor's hammer from Age of Ultron was paid off in this movie.

The end battle was everything I was hoping for, though I did keep hoping Vision would come flying back in at some point. :(

I was pleased that rather than having Thanos rage at the end, he just sat down, knowing he had lost, and accepted it. That added to the character's already wonderful complexity.

A couple of things I didn't like so much:

It would have been interesting to see more of the impact of Thanos' snap on other worlds. I understand why they didn't but, I think it would have added to the story.

I thought Captain Marvel was underused. Given her abilities, I had expected her to have a larger role, not a dominate one, just bigger than we saw.

On that time travel thing... If you're going to pick a set of rules, you have to stick by them. I thought for the most part, they did that. However, given they went with "if you make a change in the past, it doesn't change the future (your present), but instead creates an alternate reality (Kevlin Timeline, etc), then they shouldn't have been able to have Cap join the guys at the end as an old man. He should have been in an alternate reality after he made a change in the timeline by his remaining there. I understand why they had him show up at the end like they did. It gave us the emotional satisfaction of knowing this character who had sacrificed so much finally got some happiness, but this just didn't fit with the rules they had already established. I suppose he could have used the quantum realm time travel thing to switch realities, but there should have at least been a hint of that somewhere. As it is, it is the one flaw in an otherwise well executed time travel plot.

I too thought Stan's cameo was far too short. It would have been great if they had done more with that in this film.

Again, excellent movie, and a very satisfying conclusion to what they started with the first Iron Man.
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Re: Avengers: Endgame - Trailer

Post by JaceRidley » Sun May 05, 2019 5:57 pm

Michael -
Spoiler:
Cap at the end DID spend his life in an alternate universe. He came back to the "Prime" Universe to deliver the shield.
Russo confirmed it. They just didn't show it.
Here's the link: https://ew.com/movies/2019/04/30/avenge ... n-america/

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - Trailer

Post by Michael » Tue May 07, 2019 7:14 pm

Spoiler:
It would have been nice if they had given us at least a quick throwaway line in the movie to let us know that.
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Re: Avengers: Endgame - Trailer

Post by JaceRidley » Tue May 07, 2019 11:37 pm

Spoiler:
Agreed though I'd have been more interested to see him interact with Red Skull on Vormir, myself. And see the explanation as to how he got the one stone back into Jane in Asgard.

Personally, I like to think that he somehow accomplished all that and that in his timeline.... his world didn't need a Captain America. He helped save Bucky really early since he knew what happened, and basically dedicated his life to enjoying it with Agent Carter and preventing the entire Rise of Supers and keeping Earth off the Radar.... until she passed away. And then he came back.

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Re: Avengers: Endgame - Trailer

Post by sirus » Wed May 08, 2019 2:27 am

JaceRidley wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 11:37 pm
Spoiler:
Agreed though I'd have been more interested to see him interact with Red Skull on Vormir, myself. And see the explanation as to how he got the one stone back into Jane in Asgard.
Spoiler:
Okay, but putting back most of the stones is near impossible. The Space Stone needs to go back into the Tesseract and the Mind Stone needs to go back into the Scepter, but to get the Space Stone and the Mind Stone the Tesseract and the Scepter were broken (we don't see how the Avengers do it, but we only see him taking each individual stone without their original cases).

And how do you put the Soul Stone back? It was kinda mystical retrieving it. And if it's a soul for a soul, shouldn't you get back whoever you sacrificed for it?

The Reality Stone I can be kinda okay with because all you need to go is sneak up and poke Jane Foster and let it flow back into her.

The Power Stone too as I am not sure how just Cap could put it back in the force field. And it bugged me anyway as the whole place was going to be underwater again soon, made me worry about that version of Peter because it wasn't made clear how long he'd be knocked out for and he could still drown or get stuck if the water came back before he was ready to leave.

Of all of them, the Time Stone is the easiest because you just give it back to the Ancient One.

On a side note, when we first saw the Power Stone it seemed to activate the second physical contact was made. Is it just me or did they keep changing the "rules" about how the stones worked? Or maybe it was left purposefully vague and I think of them too much like their comic counterparts.

What if you snapped your fingers to heal the wounds caused by snapping your fingers? Would the power of the stones still fry you? How much of the universe can you change with the stones? Why can't you protect yourself using the power of the stones from the power of the stones?
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Re: Avengers: Endgame - Trailer

Post by JM1776 » Wed May 08, 2019 7:47 am

And you, sir(us), are forgetting the one point that should ease your concerns.

He's Captain America.
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