Star Trek Discovery - Season 2

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Star Trek Discovery - Season 2

Post by sirus » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:12 am

And here we go again. Here is the trailer without comment. Enjoy~

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2

Post by JM1776 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:21 pm

That was ... underwhelming.
There's a difference between thinking Brie Larson should consider her words with more care because some of her rhetoric is ill-timed and badly-aimed ... and wanting her to be silent because women should conform to your behavioral standards, then hating on Captain Marvel. One might mark you a curmudgeon; the other brands you a misogynist.

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2

Post by sirus » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:18 am

I must admit I a pretty much done with DSC these days. Nothing they do has been done anything close to correctly. They have gone butchered continuity and raised so many issues with the way Vulcans and Starfleet are portrayed that I am just tired of it. I have yet to decide if I will be watching season 2 at all, I more than likely will but that is more because I have seen all of Star Trek and I am not about to give that up now, but I am very much not excited.

I think the humor in it feels too much like "The Orville is popular, let's do that" without understanding why Trek fans like the Orville in the first place. They don't understand the fans and as a result, they are making stories that do not interest me. The Orville at the very least seems to have some grasp as to what I like about Trek and gives me some of that.

Plus the Orville will be talking Season 3 by the time DSC is ready to launch season 2. The Orville seems to be a proper show with a proper schedule and proper TV-minded people at the helm, DSC feels like a fan project with a runaway budget.

It saddens me to no end that of the two the one that feels like a cheap Star Trek knock-off isn't the Orville, it's DSC. Because at the very least the Orville seems to understand what Star Trek is about and what it is about Star Trek that keeps bringing me back to it.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2

Post by Gazomg » Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:56 pm

agree with jm a bit underwhelming.

That said my expectations of discovery was very low to begin with and the show was therefore better than I thought.
It seems it more action and visual effect than actual proper trek stories overall and the new season am expecting sadly more of the same, but will still watch it
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2

Post by Michael » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:14 am

I haven't seen any of Discovery, and have made very few comments. Part of the reason has been my own sense of Trek fatigue, and also I have a problem purely on principle with having to pay money to a service to see a Star Trek series.

Then tonight, I found this on YouTube:

Star Trek: Discovery | Season 2 Premiere Episode | CBS All Access


Note - this is a legitimate posting of the episode by CBS.

I considered passing it by, but was curious more about how the show looked. My expectations as far as the story ad characters was very low.

So I watched it.

My opinion is...

I FREAKIN' LOVE THIS!!!!!!!

I understand my opinion is based only upon this single episode, and that I haven't seen anything of the first season. But I consider Discovery the best Trek series since The Next Generation, and even superior to it in a number of aspects.

I love the look of this show. Gone is the bland lighting of TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT. The show has a cinematic sense to its visuals and its storytelling. Yet it manages to be very much Star Trek in its sense of adventure, character interactions, and themes.

I think the choice of making the main character someone other than the captain of the ship is a brilliant move.

I haven't been this excited about Star Trek since going to see The Wrath of Khan back in 1982.

My outlook for Trek has done a complete 180. If they can sustain this, and build on it, Star Trek may have a bright and long future.

On to some specifics...
Spoiler:
I was amazed at the amount and types of aliens on the show. This is what I have always wanted to see on Star Trek, a larger diversity of various and strange aliens that are actually... alien.

When I heard they were going to have Pike and Spock on the show, I figured it was a gimmick to attract older fans like me which would have them present, but only in tangential ways. But seeing this episode, Pike was a fully realized character and an interesting one.

Michael Burnham is an intriguing character who draws me into the story, and into her story. I'm enjoying the mystery about her and Spock, and how they were raised together. I can see how this situation with her could give us a fresh look on Vulcans in general, and Spock in particular.

I also liked the character Saru. Doug Jones is always amazing, but here he's giving us an outsider's look at humanity like Spock and Data did, but from a different point of view.

I have seen debates here on STPMA about the character Tilly. Rather than let the negative things I'd seen expressed about her influence my opinion of the character, I tried to just take her as she came in the episode. I found her optimism refreshing. And while she might not fit what we've come to expect from previous Trek about members of Starfleet, I think that's a good thing. It shows Starfleet recognizes its criteria are necessary, but will occasionally set them aside to allow someone into its ranks who fulfills a great Trek idea--- infinite diversity in infinite combinations. That she is an unexpected addition makes her an interesting character.

The one complaint I have is with the sound design. It's just too busy. It's what I would expect from Ben Burtt's work in the Star Wars films where it works. Trek's sound design has always taken a lighter touch with a less dense sound effects palette. But maybe I'll get used to it if I see more.
As I said above, I refused to consider paying for a service to watch a Trek series partly on principle. After having seen the first episode of Discovery's second season, I am reconsidering that position.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2

Post by captainuniverse » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:32 am

Wait until you see the second episode of season two, Michael. It felt like a classic episode in my opinion.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2

Post by JM1776 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:15 am

I readily grant that Season Two is already vastly superior to Season One (which I have seen in its entirety and for many reasons despise), though it still suffers from a Mary Sue heroine (with whom I am far less impressed than is Michael above), subtle and not-so-subtle SJW undercurrents, some seriously dip-shitty choices as relate to the special effects and far too many contemporary touches that detract from verisimilitude.

Still, it's reason to hope that Discovery has found its sea legs.
There's a difference between thinking Brie Larson should consider her words with more care because some of her rhetoric is ill-timed and badly-aimed ... and wanting her to be silent because women should conform to your behavioral standards, then hating on Captain Marvel. One might mark you a curmudgeon; the other brands you a misogynist.

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2

Post by sirus » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:15 am

Honestly, I was ready to hate-watch season 2, but really it's proving to be vastly better than season 1. I mean I am deeply jaded at this point and in my mind, it is so far from canon that nothing they do means much of anything canon-wise, but really, there are other "official canon" things I don't consider canon for one reason or another.

I find it is still heavy SJW themed and I don't like Mike anymore, but I think the tone is so vastly improved that I can't help but give them some credit. I mean all of episode 2 I marveled at the stunning camera work, a thing not seen in DSC season 1, which had terrible camera work.

Honestly, though the show will never be my favorite Trek, I can see it turning around and being an okay show. It might move up from being my least favorite Trek and move Voyager right back to that spot. But at this point, we'll see how this turns out. We have yet to really see Spock yet, and they could really frak that up fast if they are not careful.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2

Post by Michael » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:24 am

captainuniverse wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:32 am
Wait until you see the second episode of season two, Michael. It felt like a classic episode in my opinion.
Good. :)

I'll try to see it in the next couple of days.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2

Post by sirus » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:26 pm

Though both had issues I enjoyed episodes 1 and 2. Episode 3 felt like a return to form from season one. Just bad and though it tries hard to fix some continuity mistakes, it suffers from poor writing and a lackluster plot.

On a side note, is anyone else really quite tired of Section 31? Like, it works from time to time, but now it feels like they put it in everything and DSC handles it very very poorly. Why would S31 have their own badges? Why are they operating even close to that open? Why is it people seem to treat S31 simply as Starfleet Intelligence Black Ops? It's not. S31 is a covert organization with independent power that operates within Starfleet, but is not a full part of Starfleet. This series feels like they're making them something more "official" like the Cardassian or Romulan spies.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2

Post by sirus » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:18 am

Well, after the failure of the last episode I wasn't sure what to expect from this one, but honestly I enjoyed it. Great stuff with Saru. And Mike not being able to solve everything for once, refreshing.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2

Post by JaceRidley » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:40 pm

sirus wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:15 am
I find it is still heavy SJW themed and I don't like Mike anymore, but I think the tone is so vastly improved that I can't help but give them some credit.
"SJW themed" .... I mean... really? What exactly about this show is "SJW themed" and why do you use that term as a pejorative?
sirus wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:15 am
I mean all of episode 2 I marveled at the stunning camera work, a thing not seen in DSC season 1, which had terrible camera work.
It's literally the same two guys. Come on now...

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2

Post by JaceRidley » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:44 pm

JM1776 wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:15 am
I readily grant that Season Two is already vastly superior to Season One (which I have seen in its entirety and for many reasons despise), though it still suffers from a Mary Sue heroine (with whom I am far less impressed than is Michael above), subtle and not-so-subtle SJW undercurrents, some seriously dip-shitty choices as relate to the special effects and far too many contemporary touches that detract from verisimilitude.

Still, it's reason to hope that Discovery has found its sea legs.
I don't find Burnham to be a Mary Sue.

Is she immensely intelligent and talented? Yes. She has every reason to be. She was raised on Vulcan and expected to perform at near-Vulcan like levels. But from the outset of the show, she was shown to be capable of mistakes and flawed judgement. She's the opposite of a Mary Sue.

I feel like a lot of people don't like the show, and therefore cast their dislike of the show into her, when she isn't doing anything that other characters in the other series didn't regularly do.

And again with the "SJW" thing... When did everyone forget about the future that Star Trek is?

Lastly, None of the "contemporary touches" break immersion or verisimilitude because of the variety of reasons things are different from the way they were on TOS. But I wouldn't WANT them to look like they did on TOS and even though you all think you would... You wouldn't. If they did, you'd be complaining how dated everything looks.

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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2

Post by Gazomg » Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:36 pm

sirus wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:26 pm
Why would S31 have their own badges? Why are they operating even close to that open? Why is it people seem to treat S31 simply as Starfleet Intelligence Black Ops? It's not. S31 is a covert organization with independent power that operates within Starfleet, but is not a full part of Starfleet. This series feels like they're making them something more "official" like the Cardassian or Romulan spies.
I totally agree.

If they were that popular there would be records, data etc, yet in DS9 everyone ...even captains seems surprised they existed.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery - Season 2

Post by JaceRidley » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:15 pm

Gazomg wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:36 pm
sirus wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:26 pm
Why would S31 have their own badges? Why are they operating even close to that open? Why is it people seem to treat S31 simply as Starfleet Intelligence Black Ops? It's not. S31 is a covert organization with independent power that operates within Starfleet, but is not a full part of Starfleet. This series feels like they're making them something more "official" like the Cardassian or Romulan spies.
I totally agree.

If they were that popular there would be records, data etc, yet in DS9 everyone ...even captains seems surprised they existed.
Why would a covert organization that is huge on it's own press and think it's doing what is necessary for the good of starfleet and the federation have it's own badges? Because that seems exactly like the kind of thing that would be done by a group of self aggrandizing egomaniacs that engage in black ops where "the ends justify the means" would do.

They ARE Starfleet Intelligence Black Ops. They just aren't publicly acknowledged. We can say "Oh they aren't officially a part of Starfleet" all we want because we don't want it to be true but the fact is, they've been shown to be around long enough and Starfleet is happy to look the other way. If they weren't a part of Starfleet, it makes no logical sense that they wouldn't have been hunted down by now. Of course they're "official." They just aren't acknowledged. Much like MOST real covert black bag groups in the real world.

And no, there wouldn't be records. At least not ones anyone can see. Because you don't keep public records of black ops agents. Doing so makes them a security risk.

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