Star Trek: Picard

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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by JaceRidley » Fri May 24, 2019 10:11 am

sirus wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 7:38 am
You know, Jace. It is amazing how often you seem to mistake your opinion for fact. I at least own my opinion as my opinion and little more.
Since when? You often express your opinion as the prevailing opinion among all trek fans. As pure face.
Remember the phrase coming off your fingertips "I know trek and this isn't it..."
As for the new uniforms, they look okay. They are fine. I might grow to like them more, but for now I haven't seen enough of them to tell.
And yet, you've already judged.
Nothing about this looks that great. That's my issue.
You're basing that on a cryptic 1 minute teaser in which we see.... almost nothing, a couple leaked set pictures, and a 7 second clip? Wow. That's amazing.

Also, nearly every trek fan on the internet disagrees with you, but hey...
Also the new uniforms in the clips seen look a little cheap... Almost like they were made in a hurry to appease the demands of someone... Like the merchandisers... But those are just rumors.
From who? I've seen no such thing. That seems like baseless speculation made to just be negative and it doesn't even mean anything. TNG seasons 1 and 2 were literal near-skintight catsuits.
As for the teaser, the only thing it makes me want is a bottle of Chateau Picard...
Really? That's all you took from that? Not that Picard has apparently been through massive tragedy post-Romulus and it shook the very foundations of his faith in the Federation, and that he left because of it?

You see, to GOOD writers, that's what we call worldbuilding. If it doesn't make you want to know more, it's because you aren't bothering to go into this open minded, which of course you aren't, because....
I don't have high hopes because it is being mad by the same people as STD and I did not enjoy that show.
:roll:

As if they are one and the same, when clearly they are not and we're talking Patrick Freakin' Stewart here...
I often feel like I'm not "allowed" to dislike something and express it here. I might avoid it from now on.
You misunderstand, which... is likely not uncommon. It's not that you aren't allowed to dislike something.

It's the way in which you express that dislike that is off-putting.

You established in your mind years ago that you are an expert on all things Star Trek... What it is, what it should be, what it should never be, and you have aligned your own identity so closely with your personal beliefs of those things(even though they are inaccurate), you allow no flexibility. No room to grow. No room for change. You are closed minded. If it doesn't adhere to the rigid structure that circumscribes your personal views of that world and your identity in relation to it.... it's bad.

And so you have gone on long rants that speak out against things in Star Trek(that I won't get into both because of Forum rules and because you know damn well what they are) that are both quite truthful to Star Trek and are essential to the tenets of ANYONE who believes in the Federation as an entity, even when you, yourself, don't seem to. You have said multiple times how you wish Star Trek had just stayed dead. You make disparaging comments, like you have done in this thread.... when there isn't anything to even really talk about yet except "AWESOME. PICARD IS BACK! This looks like it could be AMAZING Storytelling!" and to speculate about what is happening in the series and with the character given our very limited information thus far.

It is honestly one of the most confusing things I have ever seen for anyone who claims to be a Star Trek fan.

But then, we both know it isn't about Star Trek.

Because you've done it with at least Star Wars and Marvel on this forum as well...

Has it occurred to you that maybe.... you just don't know what you're talking about? That you're just a needlessly negative person? That maybe these boundaries you've established in your mind for what something is, was, should be, should never be.... don't need to exist and to just allow storytelling to take place and to enjoy it? That the aforementioned reasons you keep having problems with things have less to do with the thing and more to do with you? That those same reasons(which, again, I cannot get into specifics here) are not inherently bad just because they're different?

I'd ask you to do some real introspective looking and actually address my questions to yourself... but we both know you won't.

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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by sirus » Fri May 24, 2019 11:15 pm

Yeah... I'm done. This is stupid and it amazes me that it keeps going on.

I call STD cancer because more and more it kills my interest in interacting with this fandom. It sucks the life out of things and just makes every conversation toxic. I don't trust the makers of Star Trek Picard to make a show I'd want to see. Midway through season 2 of STD, I quit Trek and it was only on the suggestion of a friend that I go back and rewatch the Trek I like that I found my love for the franchise again.

I wish Trek had stayed dead, at least on TV, because I dislike the conflict. I would have longed for a new Trek show if it had stayed dead. I would have pined for something on TV again. But this fandom would not be as broken as it is now. I am tired of fighting. I am tired of all the back and forth about whether I was ever a "true fan" because I am now a bitter fan.

Star Trek Picard could be good, I will be watching it. I have my expectations gutter low at the moment because of what I have already been through with this franchise over the past years and because it seems ominous that for some reason Netflix rejected the show. I feel like there is something big going down behind the scenes and all the media is simply posturing. There is a reason for the teaser showing nothing. There is a reason for there being all silent on the release date. There is a reason why we haven't heard anything about these other Trek shows beyond announcements. CBS seems good at announcing things. Yet there is no release date. At least when it was on TV and not on their ridiculous streaming platform we could expect a show around the same time every year. But then again when it was on TV you couldn't get away with these ridiculously short seasons. 14 episodes? Remember when a reason was 22 to 24 episodes long? For such an expensive show you would think they would learn to stretch the budget farther. Almost every fan series that is now canceled, thanks CBS, had a tighter budget and still did some amazing stuff with it.

I am so tired of this. I'm calling it quits here. I've given my reasons for my distrust of the new series. I won't be commenting again until the show drops.
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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by sirus » Sat May 25, 2019 10:02 am

Post script-

Okay, I've had a breath.

I am done defending my opinions all the fucking time. Fuck it, it's my opinion, if you disagree it doesn't make either of us wrong, it just means we have different worldviews, and that's okay. By insinuating I am something to make my opinion less than yours, you poison the waters. It's the toxin that is killing every fucking fandom on the planet. I am allowed to dislike something and you are allowed to like it. Me stating I find something not to my taste is not a personal attack. It's me saying an opinion.

I am tired of opinion being treated as if it's a personal attack to be defended against.

If you like the thing, that's fine.

Don't act like my view of it devalues your view and don't act like your view devalues mine. I look at it through the lens of my experience and expectations, same as everyone else.

I am tired of opinion being treated as if it's a personal attack to be defended against.

Again, if you like the thing, that's fine.

Don't act like my view of it devalues your view and don't act like your view devalues mine. I look at it through the lens of my experience and expectations, same as everyone else.

It's media to consume and not everyone consumes it the same way.

That's just how life is.
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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by JaceRidley » Sat May 25, 2019 12:10 pm

Done being a martyr now? Good.

I considered doing the usual: A careful deconstruction of everything you said, pointing out the obvious bullshit, the flaws, but the fact is.... why? You don't listen. You don't grow. You act like introspection and careful consideration is a waste of time. So helping you along would be a waste of mine.

You make suppositions and accusations with zero evidence, but entirely based on your own prejudices. You act like you understand anything about the process of creating a TV show or working in the industry. You make so many assumptions, none of which have any backing of knowledge behind them, and prove how far up your ass your head is, that I'm actually amazed you can see a television screen.

And when someone calls you on your bullshit, you balk, make excuses, take back your excuses, double down on your ignorance, and refuse to learn.

But I will give you one thing: At least you're so consistent in your negativity that it's literally predictable.

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This image is a driving force I've noticed in the best artists I've ever met. Writers. Filmmakers. Visual artists. Musicians. Any and all of the above.

You've lost the fun. You've lost the fun in favor of your own self righteousness, prejudices, and the arrogance of your entitlement.

The only quoted text of yours I want to directly address is from your "Post Script"...
I am tired of opinion being treated as if it's a personal attack to be defended against.
Opinion is a very easy thing to have, and when dealing with simple stuff is.... fine.

Coke is better than Pepsi. Pineapple belongs on Pizza. Calvin & Hobbes is the best Comic Strip ever. Dostoevsky is better than Tolstoy.

But when that opinion is "I hate Star Trek Discovery(or anything else) because of the socio-political agenda it pushes on people and the messages it represents, and those messages divide fans." (this is a paraphrasing of precisely what you have said on this forum, btw, and I know it tows the line Michael... I won't be any more specific than that. I promise.)...that ceases to be a simple opinion. As you said, that's a worldview. And it's a shitty one.

It's saying that you care more about making sure a certain subset of people are comfortable with inoffensively boring fiction that doesn't challenge people than dealing with real world issues that matter to a large segment of the population. It's saying that you don't care whether or not representation exists in fiction because it may divide people's opinions who were formerly "united" in their complacency. And rather than fight for the Star Trek future of inclusion and representation that Roddenberry believed so strongly in but the world wasn't ready for, that the current show runners believe so strongly in now that much of the world is.... You'd rather Trek had just stayed dead. Never evolving. Never changing. A museum exhibit. Because it's comfortable.

And you don't want it challenged. Well then.... I suggest you shut the fuck up about those "opinions". Because it's 2019 and unless you're frequenting echo-chamber forums for people who only share your "opinions", then there is almost certainly *always* gonna be someone like me to challenge you on it.

And if you think I'm gonna stop just because you're "done defending your opinions".... you're wrong. I will happily point out your bullshit even if you never respond and brush off your negativity. Because I fight for what I believe in. And I believe in the Star Trek future. I believe in a future of inclusion, representation, equity and equality, where people who fight against those things in favor of complacency are rightly ignored, or worse, because they aren't contributing anything to the whole...

It's media to consume and not everyone consumes it the same way. And because of that... we need to make everyone gets a chance to be included in that. Everyone.

That's just how life is.

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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Gazomg » Sat May 25, 2019 12:52 pm

sirus wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 10:02 am
Post script-

Okay, I've had a breath.

I am done defending my opinions all the fucking time. Fuck it, it's my opinion, if you disagree it doesn't make either of us wrong, it just means we have different worldviews, and that's okay. By insinuating I am something to make my opinion less than yours, you poison the waters. It's the toxin that is killing every fucking fandom on the planet. I am allowed to dislike something and you are allowed to like it. Me stating I find something not to my taste is not a personal attack. It's me saying an opinion.

I am tired of opinion being treated as if it's a personal attack to be defended against.

If you like the thing, that's fine.

Don't act like my view of it devalues your view and don't act like your view devalues mine. I look at it through the lens of my experience and expectations, same as everyone else.

I am tired of opinion being treated as if it's a personal attack to be defended against.

Again, if you like the thing, that's fine.

Don't act like my view of it devalues your view and don't act like your view devalues mine. I look at it through the lens of my experience and expectations, same as everyone else.

It's media to consume and not everyone consumes it the same way.

That's just how life is.
you are wasting your time.

you have been labelled a hater, along with others it seems.
How dare you have an opinion of your own, how dare you.
Let alone have one that might differ from someone else..

Sarcasm aside, it is not just trek sadly that has people crying non stop these days. People actively go looking for things to be upset over and they love to bandy names around to act like they have some superior right, intelligence, or simply that their own opinion matters more.

For the record I dont agree with you on some things like Discovery, it was a better show than I expected,if I did set the bar low, and I am not expecting much from this picard show either, but will give it a chance like all the others.
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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by JaceRidley » Sat May 25, 2019 1:34 pm

And naturally the first person to come to your defense is also the same person who had to be censured and warned by the Moderating Staff here for expressing the exact sentiments I was literally just speaking about in my last post.

Guess what, kids?

Your Freedom of Speech only extends so far as the long arm of the government not picking you up and hauling you off to jail for your shitty opinions.

It doesn't save you from the ire and condemnation of public opinion for acting like neolithic jackasses who can't, as they say, "get with the times."

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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Gazomg » Sat May 25, 2019 2:31 pm

You are all that is wrong with people today. You cannot accept if others have an opinion that differs, you dismiss their opinions but then expect the same people to respect your opinions and lack the awareness to comprehend this.

You have called people "haters", and "neolithic jackasses", simply because they have the audacity to have an opinion of their own that does not conform with yours.

So carry on acting like some authority on everything,
carry on labeling people
carry on calling people haters for having an opinion
carry on thinking everyone else is wrong and you are right all the time


I genuinely pity you,
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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by lafr » Sat May 25, 2019 2:33 pm

I thought I heard the bell ringing announcing Round Two.

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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Michael » Sat May 25, 2019 3:10 pm

Thread locked until I can sort through all of this.
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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Michael » Sat May 25, 2019 5:12 pm

Admin Post...

The thread is now unlocked, however, there are new rules.

Please go to this thread to read them: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8881
(Or scroll back to the topic of the forum page as they are posted there as well.)

If you have questions or comments, you can PM me, or post in the above thread.

This thread should now proceed according to the new rules, and on topic.
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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by JaceRidley » Sat May 25, 2019 8:10 pm

lafr wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 2:33 pm
I thought I heard the bell ringing announcing Round Two.
Nope, no round 2. I've wasted enough of my time trying to help people see the other side of their actions that still don't care.

You can't fix.... well... you know how that ends.

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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Gazomg » Sat May 25, 2019 8:30 pm

I reckon the ten episode series will get the one season,
Discovery was decent enough to compensate for the utter shit that was the abrams alternate, but cannot see STP getting the hype and following that TNG once had which was far too long back.

I do hope I am wrong though and the show will be better than what I expect, and will be pleasantly surprised, but thats the optimist in me, the realist in me says it wont be.
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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Michael » Sun May 26, 2019 4:05 pm

Gazomg wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 8:30 pm
... but cannot see STP getting the hype and following that TNG once had which was far too long back.
I doubt it could for a variety of reasons. TNG was the first series after the original, it was on regular TV channels, though in first run syndication, and Roddenberry was in charge at the beginning.

However, Patrick Stewart is an incredible actor (and from what I've heard he is determined the character be done right), and Picard is such a strong character that I think as long as the writing is strong, I suspect Picard will end up be quite a successful show.
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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by captainuniverse » Mon May 27, 2019 1:10 am

I'm almost afraid to comment. It's getting unsafe to walk home to my starbase at night.
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Re: Star Trek: Picard

Post by Gazomg » Mon May 27, 2019 2:09 pm

Michael wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 4:05 pm
Gazomg wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 8:30 pm
... but cannot see STP getting the hype and following that TNG once had which was far too long back.
I doubt it could for a variety of reasons. TNG was the first series after the original, it was on regular TV channels, though in first run syndication, and Roddenberry was in charge at the beginning.

However, Patrick Stewart is an incredible actor (and from what I've heard he is determined the character be done right), and Picard is such a strong character that I think as long as the writing is strong, I suspect Picard will end up be quite a successful show.
I totally agree about Patrick Stewart, I suspect this is a very important project for him, and trek fans will always give shows a chance.
I have zero fears on that side.

My fears lie more in the other areas, such as the writing, over saturation, or how networks might be expecting a certain number of viewers and other sucjh stuff. Like all trek spin offs I am hoping it will be a success and more importantly something I enjoy.
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